I’ve lost count of just how many teams will be competing in SANZAR’s Super Rugby bloatfest next year; the draw has been released (notwithstanding the fact that Japan don’t have a team yet) and about the only good news from a Sharks point of view is that we’ve escaped a fixture against the Mars GlobeTrotters this time around.
An opening encounter against the Kings in PE has “banana peel” written all over it for the men in black, particularly given that the Kings surprised all comers by winning their Super Rugby opener when they played in 2013. A home fixture against Argentina follows, before a nightmare local tour that sees away games against the Stormers and Bulls in successive weeks.
The structure is very convoluted, of course – let’s try to pick out some easily digestible highlights from a Sharks point of view:
- in our pool we have the Kings, the Lions and Argentina. That means we play each of those sides twice, both home and away.
- we play each side in the other “SA pool”, The Bulls, Stormers, Cheetahs and Japan, only once. Bulls and Stormers away, Cheetahs and Japan at home. That means no trip to Japan for the Sharks this year.
- we do not play against any Australian teams this year. Yeah, I know….
- we play each of the five New Zealand teams once (unsurprisingly, three of the five games are away)
- the thing that I still can’t quite wrap my head around is how we’ve been “sold” on this new format on the basis of less travel. The Sharks now face a three-week tour to New Zealand (playing the Highlanders, Blues and Chiefs), before returning to Durban for one game (against the Hurricanes) and then immediately leaving to play Argentina in South America. That’s a far tougher schedule than a straight four-week Antipodean trip.
Here is the team’s full schedule:
Saturday 27 February Kings v Sharks
Saturday 5 March Sharks v Argentina
Saturday 12 March Stormers v Sharks
Friday 18 March Bulls v Sharks
Saturday 26 March Sharks v Crusaders
BYE
Saturday 9 April Sharks v Lions
Saturday 16 April Blues v Sharks
Friday 22 April Highlanders v Sharks
Friday 29 April Chiefs v Sharks
Saturday 7 May Sharks v Hurricanes
Saturday 14 May Argentina v Sharks
Saturday 21 May Sharks v Kings
BYE
Saturday 2 July Lions v Sharks
Saturday 9 July Sharks v Cheetahs
Friday 15 July Sharks v Japan
Tweet
How I miss the Super 12
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Fuuuuck thats uninteresting!
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Frankestein type tournament….farcial…..and to think I was crucified a decade ago when I wanted SARU to head North….
We rugby fans are truly stuck between a rock and hard place here. I haven’t met a single fan happy with this format but we’ll watch anyway because our team is playing. A few will boycott or lose interest along the way but SANZAR will see viewership numbers rise in general and conclude this circus is a success. #GeeMyKrag
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I don’t think anyone consulted the public before deciding on this ridiculous format. I have not seen a comment or heard anything from anywhere stating that this is what the public wants.
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They can add all the extra teams they want, but it’s time to start splitting it into divisions. Travel time is much less of a concern if you only play 12 games a season
7 games against SA teams that I could watch the Currie Cup to see, no thanks. This format is awful, please please let it change in 2017.
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@JarsonX (Comment 5) : Money, Money, Money.
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Its getting even more ridiculous when it gets to the play offs.
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By the way Rob, I had a good chuckle when I read the title
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@lostfish (Comment 1) : I agree, Super 14 was about the ultimate Max we should have gone.
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This format is so crap. I personally would have split the teams into two pools in which the teams play each other only once with the top two in each pool advancing to the semis. Not this crap fest that they chose. Hell, I’m no pauper when it comes to intelligence, but I still can’t understand exactly how this crap show is going to work
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@Uli Boelie (Comment 11) : When the Super 12 was on I would get up at stupid o’clock in the morning to watch games. Now I might check the scores at the end of the day.
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I really don’t know how fair playing only NZ teams vs only Aus teams are when clearly there is one HUGE difference in difficulty level. If you look at this year’s SR, the majority of Aus teams lie at the bottom as oppose the the NZ teams on top.
This last cross phase play should have been random antipodean teams with a mix from either group.
PS: The Bulls play the Aus conference and I would have liked to play against a NZ side to see at what level we are. Sigh.
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Soo basically you play someone somewhere in the southern hemisphere over like a 6 month period and then someone decides a winner after all that based on a magical formula. Haha i want to see how Supersport Blitz reports these logs haha…good luck keeping track
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@Seth101 (Comment 7) : unfortunately it wont change, they signed a deal for 3/5 years?
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@lostfish (Comment 13) : You not the only one, CC and Super rugby is dead since the new format started.
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@lostfish (Comment 13) : Did the same. Now it’s a matter of – oh well.
Will watch games of most SA teams, but I have no interest in a force vs rebels game.
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What a crock of Shyte. Who would ever agree to this schedule. Its lunacy.
Saturday 16 April Blues v Sharks – NZ
Friday 22 April Highlanders v Sharks – NZ
Friday 29 April Chiefs v Sharks – NZ
Saturday 7 May Sharks v Hurricanes – SA
Saturday 14 May Argentina v Sharks – ARGENTINA
Saturday 21 May Sharks v Kings -SA
So we play 3 games in New Zealand, return to SA for 1 game then its off to Argentina for 1 game and then its back to SA for a game and nary a bye between that lot. No seriously the mind boggles that anyone would accept those fixtures.
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@SheldonK (Comment 15) : Its a total joke, and we the public are paying them to give us this crap.
I can promise you now, in two years time they going to realize viewership numbers are down and will then expand the comp again to include new markets for viewership.
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@Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 19) : Surely our CEO should have made noise about this?
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@Uli Boelie (Comment 20) : You know viewership numbers may go up with people channel hopping between games but stadium attendance will severely drop- but guess thats not their problem rather the Unions issue now. I also believe that the Vodacom Cup and Currie Cup are being changed- cant get anyone to confirm or give more info other than I know the ABSA sponsorship deal ends this year.
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If anything, if they want so many team in the comp they should be using a similar format to the world cup. But even then we don’t get to see strength vs strength rugby being played week in and week out which is why the Super12/14 was so good to watch. Everyone played everyone once. Which is fair.
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@Uli Boelie (Comment 21) : I think it gets discussed above his head and he gets dictated to by SANZAR
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The Japanese have not finalised their team’s name and only have 8 signed players. They will be playing some of their games in Singapore and Eddie Jones has turned down the offer to coach their franchise. Sanzar are now asking the JRFU for certain assurances.. not good.
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@SheldonK (Comment 22) : I don’t see how viewership will go up if people are channel hopping? Stadium attendance will most definitely go down even more.
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@Uli Boelie (Comment 26) : Im assuming with a thousand games there will games on concurrently so by channel hopping i mean chopping between games without actually watching any full games. This new format has no appeal to me…i may go watch 1 or 2 games but the comp as a whole doesnt attract me as a rugby fan. Wish they would learn from the EPL Soccer success- keep a simple format and just increase the quality within rather than expand it
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@SheldonK (Comment 27) : I highly doubt they would have matches overlap?
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Yeah, a very bad format.
I wouldn’t have minded if we came up with a proper setup (or maybe even a b division), to start including teams from Japan/Arg/even US/Canada, but just dropping everyone into the same comp and having teams play some opposition twice while not playing other teams at all, makes no sense.
I’m actually glad we’re playing NZ teams. I never liked our Aus fixtures. We under-performed anyway and at least you test yourself against top NZ teams.
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ja really think it’s time for a move up North to join Europe!!!!!!!!
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They should have gone for a two tier competition with promotion-relegation between the tiers, i.e. the top level tier works out the same as S12. Play each team in your tier away and at home, with semi-finals and final.
This is just rubbish.
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@charlieharvey (Comment 25) : they should ask SA rugby sure they will find another SA team (like Pumas) to join the Super joke rugby!!!!!!!!!
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@charlieharvey (Comment 25) : so they’ve signed 7 more players? That’s good… last I heard it was only 1
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I want to see two pools of 10-12, play each other only once, promotion/relegation, strength vs strength.
Teams from the USA and Canada, and even a combined Pacific Islanders team could be invited to compete. Now that would be worth watching.
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@Uli Boelie (Comment 28) : Do you think there is enough tv space for them not to?
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Every year fans across SA, OS, and NZ complain bitterly to SANZAR for diluting this tournament, yet every year we get more teams, and crazier travel schedules.
I think the only way we’ll see our beloved Super 10/12 competition again, is if the powers that be continue along path they so aggressively pursue. Clearly it’s all about adding more teams and countries to the competition to generate more revenue. I’m fairly convinced their contingency plan is “If this year is an epic failure, then problem is because we don’t have enough teams.”
We know one thing about the SANZAR group, they are loathe to go back to something that works. It would mean admitting they screwed up. And let’s be realistic, that is not going to happen!
So perhaps we should demand MORE teams. Canada, Georgia, and Romania would be a good place to start for 2017.
My reasoning is that there must surely be a breaking point where the top 10 or so teams decide “Screw this! Lets start our own tournament.”
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So, different pools works for every rugby competition in the world except for Stupid Rugby….how do they figure that
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So disappointed with the format for the new SR, too complicated and uninteresting, I also really miss the Super 12 set up. 12 teams, 4 of the best from each of the 3 nations, playing each other once and then into semis and finals, why change something that works, oh yes.. money. As the bible says, the root of all kinds of evils.
I already gave up one of my season tickets this year, and looks like I’ll let my last one go next year.. after being an avid supporter for many years. Just not that interested anymore.
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@stevovo (Comment 38) : BTW the super 12 had 4 SA teams, 3 AUS teams and 5 NZ teams . Hence I prefer the Super 14, 5 SA, 5 NZ and 4 AUS, each team also played each other just like the S12 format.
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Am I the only one who wants to reserve judgment until the damn thing starts?
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@Poisy (Comment 40) : Yes you are. I don’t see any reason why one should like this format when it is clear that this is not a strength vs strength format.
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@Poisy (Comment 40) : I have no problem with that. At least this means I have someone to say “I told you so!” to next year
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@Poisy (Comment 40) : Pretty much, yes.
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What Argentinian team will be there?
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Those of you wanting the 4 best teams from each country realize that it means the sharks would miss out of super rugby alltogether then next year? If the CC is used to determine the 4 best SA teams..
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@Leeubok (Comment 45) : Say what?
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@Poisy (Comment 40) : Seems so. I havent even gone into the groups and teams, at this stage just the crazy travel itinary of flying up and down to 3 different continents in 3 weeks is keeping me amused. How they expect any team to give their all with nonsense like that is impossible.
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@Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 47) : Salmonoid the Optimist, are you complaining?
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@Leeubok (Comment 45) : Yes, well aware of that, but then we shouldn’t play Super Rugby if we dont deserve to be there.
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@Uli Boelie (Comment 41) : True, looking at those teams Id say the Sharks are the weakest of the lot.
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@Leeubok (Comment 45) : So be it. It may just have been the kick in the pants we needed anyway.
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@Ben (Comment 48) : Only a little bit.
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@vanmartin (Comment 51) : Thats exactly what we needed back in 1995, that same year we ended up winning the CC and then in 1996 in the S12 final and again CC winners.
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@Poisy (Comment 40) : yes you seem to be the only one!!!!!!!!!!!! Time to move to move our rugby to Europe!!!!!!
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@Leeubok (Comment 45) : @vanmartin (Comment 51) : It sure worked for the Lions didn’t it…I think most Sharks supporters would go to any length to turn this current mess around.
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@vanmartin (Comment 42) : ja we will all be doing that next year!!!!!!!
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@JD (Comment 54) : Pick any side in Europe, you’re bound to find a fair few SA’ns there – we might as well support Montpellier…we’re bound to see top quality SA rugby from them, without any external interference.
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@FireTheLooser (Comment 57) : If I had the money id buy enough players to field 3 teams in SA and get them into Europe comp. Then get DSTV opposition to buy into broadcasting it, then sit and smile.
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@Uli Boelie (Comment 58) : How cool would it be to get the Pumas, Kwas and Leopards involved in Europe? I’d watch that.
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I havent really followed SuperRugby for 2 or 3 seasons now.
I pick up the odd game, but the days of early mornign and making sure im near a TV on a Saturday afternoon are long gone.
I do watch a fair amount of European rugby though – at least i understand whats going on there.
Every year i think SR cant get any worse, and then it does.
I think the part that puts me off is how convaluted it is, but also how quickly your team can effectvieyl be eliminated from the competition, yet still have 10 odd games to play.
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@stevovo (Comment 49) : @vanmartin (Comment 51) : @Uli Boelie (Comment 53) : I agree. But wouldn’t it be a bit unfair to base that judgment on the Currie Cup? The Currie Cup and Super Rugby squads are almost completely different. Surely the lowest ranked team from the previous year’s Super Rugby should be religated.
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@Ben (Comment 61) : To me it more a case of I’d want the Sharks to take a kick in the pants by whatever means necessary. If that means we need to look at Currie Cup results then that’s what we’ll do
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@vanmartin (Comment 62) : Like I said, I agree.
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Stupid, silly, ridiculous format. Super Rugby is becoming a real drag to follow.
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What made Suer 10 special was that each team there had to earn a place by succeeding in their local comp. The season should start with the Currie Cup (with all players available) with the top 4 teams earning a place at the regional table. Everyone plays each other and it’s the best vs the best. Now that would be exciting.
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Why on earth do we not play a single Australian team in the group stages?
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@Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 65) : that was the original idea to have a “Heineken cup” competition for the Southern hemisphere. But then when the NZ teams got beaten to the first couple of titles by Transvaal and Red they started with the regional side and the rest is (sad sad very sad) history!!!!
Must say I would love it if it could go back to that but sadly it never will!!!!
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@Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 65) :
The problem, as i see it, is that the more teams are included, the more the quality of the competition will suffer.
We’ll no longer have the best teams playing the best week in , week out.
Its the same argument that was used to scale back the Currie Cup.
I do believe its SR that has given the southern hemisphere a big advantage over the last 20 years.
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@VinChainSaw (Comment 68) : further more, the competition suffers a thinner spread of quality refs.
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This is just stupid! #bringbacksuper12 #this-is-unsuper
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The travel in this compo is stupid! #bringbacksuper12 #this-is-unsuper
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The fact that teams don’t play the same teams is stupid. I mean one group plays only Aussies and one only NZs…stupid! #bringbacksuper12 #this-is-unsuper
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Just playing more and more rugby is stupid! #bringbacksuper12 #this-is-unsuper
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Injuries will go up, attendance will go down, administrators will praise themselves…stupid! #bringbacksuper12 #this-is-unsuper
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Stupid, stupid, stupid…
#bringbacksuper12 #this-is-unsuper
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Anyone picking up that I am not impressed?!
#bringbacksuper12 #this-is-unsuper
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@pastorshark (Comment 76) : #kinda #yeah
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@vanmartin (Comment 77) :
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The sharks should join or play on some euro leagues while the rest of SA play in this sanzar circus. Then by next cc we can see which does better.
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@VinChainSaw (Comment 68) : Time for SA to abandon sanzar and try inclusion in some euro leagues.
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@coolfusion (Comment 80) : My biggest worry is that SARU is so dumb that they would include us in the Pro 12 or some other down graded competition instead of the European Rugby Champions Cup
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@Uli Boelie (Comment 81) : I hear the Romanian Premier league is really starting to grow
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@gregkaos (Comment 69) :
That is a very, very good point.
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@Uli Boelie (Comment 81) :
Problem is i dont think we’d really have a choice.
There was a window a couple of years ago when the premiership and french sides were threatening to pull out of the HC.
Now theyve gone and signed on for another 5 years or something and everybody seems happy. There wont be place for SA sides now in the top comps.
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@Ben (Comment 61) : Agreed, the only way this would be fair it have a local competition (Currie Cup) where all the players are available, as ‘orlock’ proposed and the 4 best earn their place in the Super 12 competition. This would ensure that both the Currie Cup and Super rugby tournaments are quality and interesting. If only logic was the key criteria in figuring out how these things could work.
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Why are Namibia excluded from this competition.???
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@VinChainSaw (Comment 84) : Sure, however we got our selves into this situation, SARU did not help either by making promises to the Kings and enforcing a bigger competition on SANZAR. In fact they only have them selves to blame.
@The hound (Comment 86) : Darn good question actually.
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@The hound (Comment 86) : Only reason I can think of is SANZAR is after viewership and there’s not enough of it in Namibia. Your question is one more indictment against the thinking behind the current format – it’s about money and not the good of rugby as a whole. It’s probably why there’s no Pacific Islanders team in there either. The Pacific Islanders could put together a team tomorrow, Japan has had how many months to assemble a team and they have 8 players?
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@Uli Boelie (Comment 87) :
Oh yes, of course mate. Completely agree.
Decision-making has always been SARU’s achilles heel.
There are competing mandates, all of which cannot be satisfied.
Best solution for me would be for 3 SA sides to play in Europe and 3 in SR.
And then alternate each year.
Would be better if it was 2/2, but then there are other agendas at play i sup[pose.
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@The hound (Comment 86) : @vanmartin (Comment 88) : @VinChainSaw (Comment 89) : yes it’s all about money money money!!!!!!!! but thinly disguised as a attempt to expand rugby.
I personally think NZ and Oz are desperate to get into Japanese market to get hold of some rugby Yen!!!!!!! Basically NZ and Oz can only play against each other (with a lot less money) or they must include with SA or Japan to bring in money.
SA however can play in Europe without to much problems as were in the same time zone, only tricky bit will be timing of the season.
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@JD (Comment 90) : I can understand the benefits for S.A playing in Europe,but what are the benefits for them including us.
They certainly don’t need our money and they definitely don’t need to fly to S.A to play half their games, in totally different seasonal conditions.
They already have access to all our players they need,
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@The hound (Comment 91) : I guess there is a benefit in playing us at our style without it having to be a national squad or infrequent tours. Also the tours tend to be British nations only not so much the rest. Other benefits could be for scouts to see first hand what young potential there is and how they fare in or against NH style.
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@coolfusion (Comment 92) : Also crowd attendance could spike when it’s a game against SA. Presuming of course we can salvage our name as a premier rugby playing nation.
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@The hound (Comment 91) : That is an excellent point that seems to be forgotten by most. It is not just a matter of standing up and announcing we are going to play in Europe, they have to accept us into their leagues. The most likely scenario (and even that is unlikely) that we play our domestic season to determine our representatives in the Heineken Cup competition. However I can not imagine the Europeans accepting that unless the SA teams agree to play all their Heineken Cup matches in Europe. Just a non-starter in my opinion.
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@Dancing Bear (Comment 94) : Agreed, there is zero benefit to them including SA teams. We would have to approach them cap in hand and beg so wouldnt benefit us at all. SANZAR is our best bet if SARU had any balls when it came to negotiations. Although the current exchange rate and crowd attendances dont help our cause, neither do our results in Super rugby
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@SheldonK (Comment 95) : I don’t think that Aus and NZ care one wit about crowd attendance at matches in South Africa. I think all they are interested in is the massive television audience that SA provides. The same can be said for Asia, but on an even larger scale. If Aus and NZ are able to secure the Asian television market, then they too will not care about SA, and we will find ourselves isolated once again, but for economic reasons. We are stupid not to utilize the leverage while we have it.
We should be using the leverage we have now to protect our position, by not including Asian and South American teams, they will only hurt our leverage when it comes to SANZAR. SARU is being very short sighted, myopic. They are only interested in getting the Kings a permanent spot in Super Rugby without losing another franchise, and are willing to give up all the leverage SA now has for this.
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So, I hear Damian and Victor are two real injury concerns for this weekend, while Jesse and Fourie also has bumps and bruises that might keep them out of the Boks 23. The team will be announced at 18:00, I’m interested what everyone here would like the team to look like?
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@Letgo (Comment 97) : I’ll tell you what I want the backline to look like if Damian is injured:
9. FdP (hope he’s okay, still not convinced about Pienaar)
10. Lambie
11. Habana (instead of Mvovo simply because the midfield is already disrupted)
12. Pollard
13. Serfontein
14. Pieterson
15. le Roux
Serfontein is the only defensive organiser left and he’s played inside of Pollard before. As others have mentioned, Pollard has some attributes that make him suitable for the 12 jersey. If FdP is injured I’d love to see Paige tried out but that’s not going to happen.
Lood should be a direct replacement for Matfield with PSdT on the bench.
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@Dancing Bear (Comment 96) : Ya i think u are correct. I was just trying to make the point that we dont bring much to the party. other than at the moment TV viewership…but as you say how long will that be the trump card.
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@Dancing Bear (Comment 96) : What huge South African T.V. Audience are you talking about,all the rugby is on DSTV and I doubt that they have a million subscribers.SARU screwed that pooch as well by failing in the 20 years the game has been pro to sell it to a wider audience,if anything television numbers are shrinking.
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@vanmartin (Comment 98) : Yeh i think you could be close on it especially if DeAllende injured. Although think if Kriel fit he may displace Serfontein. But its a tricky one. How many injuries have hit teams this world cup and its only half way through group stage. Wonder if and when NZ will be hit
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@The hound (Comment 100) : Believe it or not DSTV subscriber numbers are still on an upward curve and SA is responsible for the largest monetary contributions to the SANZAR tv distribution rights. It’s bizarre but true. I still don’t know how we get screwed in SANZAR decision making when we bring in the most money.
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@vanmartin (Comment 102) :
Because we employ idiots to negotiate contracts.
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@VinChainSaw (Comment 103) : We should get DSTV to negotiate on SARU’s behalf. They certainly know how to exploit weakness.
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@vanmartin (Comment 104) : Get somebody to negotiate that can see past the tip of his nose, and we would be far better off. At a time when SARU needed to be securing their position within SANZAR, their only interest was ensuring the Kings have a permanent spot without losing another franchise. They were so focused on that one negotiation point, they were willing to give everything else away, which they did spectacularly.
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@Dancing Bear (Comment 105) : That is the only thing that would explain accepting both a Japanese and an Argentinian team in the SA conference, while NZ and Aus go merrily along with the same teams in their conferences, with much easier travel schedules in general. The Aussies don’t ever have to travel to Arg this year, while only a couple NZ teams have to, while SA teams have to travel to NZ, Japan and Arg???? All to secure a spot for the Kings.
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@Dancing Bear (Comment 105) :
Yup, sold the family jewels for an ice cream on a summer’s day.
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@VinChainSaw (Comment 107) : Eish but that is an apt and accurate description. The worst part is none of Aus, NZ, or SA have the player base to support a 6th franchise, SA probably even more so than the others, yet both Aus and NZ showed no desire for an additional franchise, they are quite happy to continue with the teams they have, but with our insistence of adding a franchise we don’t have the player base to support results in ridiculous travel schedules, and a Japanese team with only 8 signed players. This whole thing will most likely be one massive and spectacular failure in 2016, and could be be the end of SANZAR. And there, once again, lies SA isolated, but now for economic reasons. Our rugby will suffer dramatically, and I am sure we will see a mass exodus of professional rugby players from SA. While Aus and NZ join up with the Asian and Pacific Island markets and all of their rugby improves, while SA rugby stagnates at best or regresses more likely.
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The All Blacks were very sloppy tonight!!
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